Case Studies

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Talks at Google: Human Connection and Influence

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JON LEVY

CASSIE KOZYRKOV

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Hello, and welcome to Talks at Google.

My name is Cassie Kozyrkov, and I will be your moderator today. And I am so, so excited to introduce our special guest, Jon Levy.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Jon is a behavioral scientist extraordinaire. He is an amazing creator of communities. And he's a two time book author, and we are here to celebrate his second book, You're Invited.

So I'm so excited to welcome Jon. Hi, Jon. It is so good to see you. Welcome to the show.

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JON LEVY:
Thank you so much for having me. You know I'm a huge fan of yours.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Thank you.

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JON LEVY:
I'm beyond ecstatic that I get to be interviewed by you, so thank you.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
It is completely mutual. And you and I were both behavioral scientists. And a lot of people don't know what precisely that means. And I love how much of an evangelist you are for what we do.

So can you tell us a little bit about our species?

Inattentional Blindness

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JON LEVY:
So for sure. I think I have a really fun way of describing this to people.

To do this, you're going to need your phone. So everybody who's watching—grab your phone.

I need you to put it face down on your table, wherever you are.

Here’s an important question:
You look at your phone probably 50-plus times a day. Without looking, what is the app on the top right corner of your phone?

I want you to guess.

Now I want you to quickly look if you were right. I’ll wait.

Now put it face back down.

You’ll notice that probably about half of you were right and half of you were wrong.

But here’s the real question:
Without looking, what time did the phone display?

Chances are there is no way you could keep track of that.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Yep, I got it wrong on both counts.

Mine was Google Maps and that was not what I expected to see there, even though I use that app a lot.

And yeah… and also I should kind of know what time it is since I’m moderating. Oh, dear.

So this is going to be about?

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JON LEVY:
What’s interesting is that the reason we couldn’t pay attention to that is actually a characteristic of the brain—a bias known as inattentional blindness.

The brain mostly notices the things that we tell it to look for. Everything else is kind of ignored.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Yeah, so that means we’re constructing our realities with what we see, right?

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JON LEVY:
Yeah. As behavioral scientists, our job is to figure out all the things we’re missing—burst the illusion of what’s actually going on in reality—so maybe we can become more effective, connect better, and become more successful.

Influence as Belonging

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Your area is the science of influence, right? But I’m getting the sense that it’s a means to an end. What are you passionate about?

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JON LEVY:
The area I’m most concerned with is how we connect and how we develop belonging.

Influence is the ability to affect a person or an outcome.

And for the kind of influence most of us care about, it’s not about having a million followers.

It’s about who we’re connected to, how much they trust us, and the belonging we share.

That seems to be really important to live the lives we want.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
So it’s not hoarding influence—it’s turning it into human connection.

But behavioral science sometimes gets a bad reputation… like it’s “creepy,” like it’s manipulation.

One thing I love in your book is that you talk about a guiding principle for doing good behavioral science—something you can live with.

Can you tell us about that guiding principle?

Transparency and Benevolence

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JON LEVY:
Think about litmus tests—those strips of paper that tell you if something is an acid or a base.

My test is: when people interact with an activity or a site, I tell them all of the science it’s based on.

Then I judge their response.

If it’s done benevolently—if I tell you we designed this portion so you bond more because I want you to walk out with friends—and people are okay with it, then you’re in the clear.

But if you found out it was designed that way to get you hooked on cigarettes, they won’t be okay with it. That’s manipulation.

Fundamentally, it’s about being benevolent and honest.

I have a transparency policy: if you’re willing to tell people who don’t know you well, and they’re cool with it, you’re pretty much in the clear.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
I love this.

And reading the book, it’s funny—because you pretty much lay out the checklist of things you did when we met.

And I don’t feel manipulated at all. I respect you more.

This isn’t just academic behavioral science—it’s applied.

Shared Effort, Novelty, and the IKEA Effect

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JON LEVY:
When we first met, I suggested we do a workout class together, then take a walk and talk.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
No one had ever invited me to a first meeting like that.

It was a boot camp class with metal music remixes of pop songs and a sergeant-looking guy yelling at us to go faster on the treadmill.

And it totally worked. We’re still friends.

Can you explain why that worked?

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JON LEVY:
Most people focus on networking.

But networking makes people feel dirty. Research shows the association makes people feel like they need to clean.

We forget: we make friends over shared activities and culture.

So I wanted a shared activity—especially one that was novel, so it would be memorable.

And I wanted to use the IKEA effect: we value things we put effort into.

Shared effort bonds us.

The Vulnerability Loop and Oxytocin

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
But it wasn’t just novelty—there was also the shouting and stress.

And you mention research about oxytocin. Can you talk about that?

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JON LEVY:
Shared effort opens something called the vulnerability loop.

We think trust comes before vulnerability—but it’s the opposite.

If I say, “That was so hard,” and you validate it, we match vulnerability.

We’ve suffered together. Trust increases.

And research suggests these prosocial activities release oxytocin, associated with social bonding.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
And stress plays a role too.

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JON LEVY:
Yes—time pressure and shared adversity accelerates bonding.

People can’t meander. They have to be honest or they fail.

Introductions and the Halo Effect

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
I said yes to meeting you because we were introduced by a mutual friend we both respect. You talk about that in the book.

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JON LEVY:
That’s the halo effect. Trust transfers through introductions.

If someone you trust says “trust this person,” that credibility spreads.

And we don’t use it nearly as often as we could—because there’s virtually nobody we can’t reach through introductions.

Friendship Hoarding and Social Networks

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
What advice do you have for “friendship hoarders”?

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JON LEVY:
If I’m friends with five people and they don’t know each other, that keeps them distant.

But if I introduce incredible people to one another, it brings them closer to me.

And research suggests our networks influence behavior up to three degrees out.

Everything passes through networks—happiness, smoking, voting, marriage and divorce.

The tighter the network, the closer people are to us and the more positive impact we can have.

The Mere Exposure Effect and the Mona Lisa

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
And you also mention the mere exposure effect.

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JON LEVY:
In 1911, someone stole the Mona Lisa.

The story went viral. People lined up just to see the empty spot.

When it returned, it became iconic.

Simply being exposed to something more often causes us to like and trust it more.

Loneliness and Belonging

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
You describe a loneliness epidemic—things were getting worse even before the pandemic.

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JON LEVY:
In 1985, the average American had about three close friends outside family.

By 2004, it dropped to about two.

In less than a generation, Americans lost about a third of their close friendships.

And research on longevity shows close social ties are one of the strongest predictors of living longer.

Belonging—social integration—is foundational.

Virtual Events That Actually Work

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Virtual events: you talk about the mistake of lifting and shifting physical events online.

But you’ve done online events that actually work. What’s the formula?

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JON LEVY:
People don’t come to events just to be entertained.

They want connection and a sense of influence over the experience.

So we put people into breakout rooms quickly, give them games or prompts, then bring them back and make talks interactive with polls and play.

Digital events need “do,” not just “done to.”

Pandemic Effects and Rebuilding Community

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Has the pandemic changed communities fundamentally?

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JON LEVY:
People with lots of friends tend to make more.

People who were lonely before may isolate even more.

Online communities can support people beyond geographic limits—but I encourage connecting online, then bringing it in person when possible.

Relationships matter.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Audience question: Networking is critical to success. How do we make sure it’s taught at scale?

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JON LEVY:
Teach children to build friendships. It’s a muscle.

Being alive is uncomfortable—growth requires discomfort.

And connect through activities you care about.

Hiking? Invite friends. Make it novel. Bring a problem to solve. Share while walking.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
This conversation has been incredible. Thank you so much for being here.

And everyone—seriously—this is inspiring and practical. Check it out.

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JON LEVY:
It’s been an absolute pleasure.

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CASSIE KOZYRKOV:
Great fun. Thank you. Bye.

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